Meteor.com free hosting ends March 25, 2016

The argument was that:

[quote=“prime, post:127, topic:19308, full:true”]
MDG didn’t lie. meteor deploy will never going away. After March 25, 2016 meteor deploy will serve Galaxy :grinning: [/quote]

However that’s not true (and I thought it was said ironically, hence the grinning smiley at the end). The blog post said “free hosting to every Meteor developer through our meteor deploy feature”, so they really meant “free hosting”. And then it also went on to say that they “already started work on that work so that every developer can use Galaxy free of charge for simple apps”.

I know the MDG team is probably tired of this discussion, but I think that to not lose people’s trust they should finally stand up and say something along lines of “yes, we screwed up, we said that we will ensure that free hosting will not go away, but unfortunately we couldn’t fulfill that promise. However this is what we will do instead to satisfy everyone: …”. This would finally end this discussion and would let us focus on how to actually move forward.

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@marktrang: Will you provide ways to configure redirects from the *.meteor.com? One useful thing was that it looked much better for packages to be hosted under *.meteor.com.

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I was thinking the same thing. Wasn’t even worried so much about how things looked; just about lots and lots of broken links.

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Meteor Operation Room

Day 0:
rohit2b: Sir, operation Kill Free Bird is ready. Shall we execute?
gschmidt: Has any word of the operation been leaked to the community?
rohit2b: No sir, they will be totally taken by surprise.
gschmidt: Perfect! GO

Day 1:
gschmidt: rohit2b, status report on Kill Free Bird.
rohit2b: Sir, there are rumors we said the free tier was never going away.
gschmidt: Have sashko deny immediately.
rohit2b: Done sir!
… sometime later
rohit2b: apparently there is photographic evidence we said the free tier was never going away.
gschmidt: Can we photoshop this “evidence”?
rohit2b: No I don’t think so.
gschmidt: DAMN… well at least we gave them generous amount of time to migrate, that should ease the blowback
rohit2b: Right you are sir.

Day 2:
gschmidt: community report!
rohit2b: They are still complaining sir, and they are saying that 2 weeks is not a reasonable amount of time. How should we respond?
gschmidt: Ingrates!, no response for now, this will blow over quickly, it always does

Day 3:
rohit2b: Sir, continued complaints about the migration timeframe and broken promise, but now they are also complaining about us not responding
gschmidt: damn, I thought this would have blown over by now…
rohit2b: how do you wish to respond?
gschmidt: We cannot respond. If we do, then we’ll have to respond to every post.
rohit2b: but sir, this is easily the most viewed topic of the past week, surely we can just resp…
gschmidt: SILENCE

Day 4:
rohit2b: still complaining sir…
gschmidt: Do they never tire?
rohit2b: what if we just said we’ve heard the response but just financially can’t make any other choice?
gschmidt: no,no, they known we’re well funded… we need a different strategy
rohit2b: how about if we tell them that it would take weeks to formulate a response, and by that time it won’t matter anyway, so that’s why we can’t respond
gschmidt: hmmm, I like where your head is at, but I think I have a better strategy
rohit2b: perfect!, what is it
gschmidt: how about… we… give them no response! yes, let’s do that

:grin: all in good fun

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We are exploring easy ways to keeping the *.meteor.com for specific package demo apps (see that thread) but cannot deliver this wholesale to all *.meteor.com apps for a variety of liability reasons.

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Hey great news - we’re going to talk about this on the next TRANSMISSION show, with the Meteor and Galaxy project managers, @zoltan and @rohit2b. Show is recording on Friday and will come out next week! Get notified when the show comes out, and help ask questions here:

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Comes out next week on Friday? :slight_smile: Same day *.meteor.com goes down? :slight_smile:

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I think a safe assumption to make is that the answer is “yes”. I don’t imagine thousands of dormant apps to be prohibitively expensive. I’m guessing(!) it’s the apps that are actually running that are responsible for most of the (engineering?) cost.

Sure, it would’ve been preferable if this announcement would have been made three months ago. I’m sure MDG considered negative feedback on the short notice, so I imagine the decision was probably made under pressure. I don’t even want to speculate about the cause.

Whatever the reason, I’m sure it was necessary, and ultimately good for the community. Nobody benefits when MDG is in trouble. In the absence of information we could have a bit more faith in what MDG is doing, certainly considering the time and effort they put in their community.

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does this mean existing apps will just stop working?

or that they are just not accepting to host any new apps?
i’m really too busy to deal with moving a bunch of apps right now. maybe that’s why its such a short deadline, to try and move people in a hurry to paid…?

Yes, all your *.meteor.com will cease to work. It’s been a pretty bad run for the fortnight leading up to this anyway with timeouts and all.

Just sucks that @debergalis came out to explain that they are in a transition, to be patient as they do the migration to better platforms and then MDG hit us with a 2 weeks notice… bit of a joke how this whole thing is unfolding.

This was over on the *.meteor.com is completely down topic for the fortnight leading up to the announcement. Made me think they were fixing the issue…

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I expect the silent majority to show up in a week from now when their projects stop working, cause they’re the very last who will get this information. Then this topic can beat the records. :slight_smile:

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What exactly is “this” in this particular instance? Redirects? Why would providing redirects for existing (or even future) projects be a liability?

“This” meaning offering a redirect for all apps currently on *.meteor.com free hosting. While this sounds like a simple fix, it actually is a major liability risk since MDG would have no control over the acceptable use of the destination URL or site. While we don’t expect members of our developer community to be bad actors, with nearly 50,000 apps being hosted on Meteor.com today, it is impossible for MDG to audit or prevent abuse if a MDG-sanctioned redirect was offered to every app. In addition, this would require either a lot of manual work to process redirect requests and/or R&D investment in setting up a self-service tool for process self-service requests and ongoing redirect support.

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Hm, how does bit.ly address this high liability risk?

And how that it was a problem until now to not just link to them, but also host them?

Could you then just redirect all existing *.meteor.com domains to http://bit.ly/meteor-app-* and then leave people to register their bit.ly redirect and this is it?

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We don’t host any apps on *.meteor.com. But as the CEO of a company building an enterprise class SaaS app using Meteor we find it invaluable to see example demos of Meteor package addons that we may want to use. In fact, just today we we found a couple of new packages that we might use and they both showed how they worked on meteor.com. You really should provide some way to redirect these app sites otherwise this transition is going to be even more of a cluster@#$%.

Please let us know about these packages that have good demos on this thread. Keep in mind, there are also options (e.g. Github page) that are likely more useful to showcase actual bits more than a free hosting option.

Well, first things first: we didn’t handle this announcement well. We should have done a better job explaining the reasons behind the decision and helping answer your questions once the post went up. There was a fair bit of one-hand-not-talking-to-the-other behind the scenes on this one. That’s on me and I’ve started a process here at MDG to make sure we don’t flub a communication like this again.

There are a lot of great ideas on this thread. We’ve been reading and discussing them all week. I want to thank everyone who took the time to explain your perspective and help us understand the best way we can help you.

On to some specific questions.

Why the fast 2-week shutdown window?

The reality is the legacy free hosting tier was burying us and we couldn’t afford to keep it up for much longer while also working on Galaxy.

The database was the hardest part, as we’ve discussed here, but there’s more. That system was just never written to support the 50K+ apps running on it. It’s simply not built for what it had become: it has none of the isolation, security, monitoring, and scaling investments we’ve made in Galaxy. It made for an unpleasant situation: we found ourselves reacting to problems instead of being able to proactively head many of them off, and we couldn’t easily put standard processes in place to help us address these kinds of incidents when they did happen. That’s … a bad way to fly.

Time is our most limited resource, but cash matters too. With the growth in apps, the infrastructure takes more and more of it. Fun fact: the weekly hosting bill for the servers that run the free meteor deploy tier? Now north of $10k. A week.

What about free hosting on Galaxy?

We made a promise (with the best of intentions) that we can’t yet deliver on with Galaxy; I regret not being more upfront about this last week.

Free hosting forever, based on Galaxy, had long been our intention. It’s simple to do in concept. But we’ve learned there’s a significant amount of work in building the free tier on top of a production system where we need to ensure high availability and predictable performance for our paying users. We’re not closing the door on a free tier – there are several options we have looked at – but it’s not a quick project and as I explained, we can’t keep running the legacy systems while we develop that capability.

Moreover, the work on a free tier competes directly with other features that customers have been asking us for, such as support for multiple container sizes and for AWS regions in Europe and Asia. It’s a long list. We are eager to build these, and we have to make the best decision we can about how to prioritize them against each other and against a free tier. One guide in our thinking is asking what’s most important for professional developers. It’s the theme of the upcoming Meteor 1.3, and as I said in my Devshop talk last month, you’re going to see us focusing more and more on the features that professional developers most need, across all our projects.

All that said, I think it’s valuable to offer as much of the “one-click” meteor deploy experience as possible. I’d love to find a way to get there, possibly working with a database partner.

Community websites and package demos?

We love the idea of a special program for Meteor-related sites, for example. @marktrang and @rohit2b are working on a sandbox program for that. Expect more from them on this one shortly.

Next

I’ll hang out here on the thread and be on another Transmission soon.

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Is it possible to provide a galaxy free hosting where the app will be destroyed in 2 days if there is no payment made.

This helps in the following ways

  • newbie developers can be taught in meteor during training programs with galaxy as part of the curriculum. This will close the development loop instead of introducing them to heroku / bluemix.
  • once someone understand the seamless and easy deployment in Galaxy with his MVP, the probability of conversion from Free to PAID will be high. I feel MDG’s revenue will only increase in this freemium model.
  • 2 days will not be a huge cost for MDG & it creates a sense of urgency for a newbie developer to act on it.
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It’s this simple guys, really. They didn’t expect such a huge uptake in usage. Speaks volumes on how kickass Meteor is. :smiley:

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I wonder if it would have been possible and better to seek more VC funding in order to maintain free hosting. VCs are more likely to provide funding wherever there is great traction. Think of the history of YouTube and maybe many other big names.