Where is the meteor love?

martineboh · May 14, 2018, 12:20pm

Solid point! I made this point in a post a while ago: that MDG was repositioning in the hope of getting acquired by Facebook, hence the official support of React, even when it seems obvious of Vue superiority.

Jacques · May 15, 2018, 7:23am

Your hunch seems correct. After I externalized the <script> part of my Vue component to a separate .coffee file I can now not correctly set the breakpoints inside of it in Chrome Dev Tools.

Do you stick to manual debugger statements anyway to be able to put the breakpoints at the correct level of nesting and hence block scoping in the CoffeeScript code which is not possible by just choosing a line number in an IDE for those single CoffeeScript lines that exit multiple block scopes through multiple outdents?

GeoffreyBooth · May 15, 2018, 7:37am

I don’t have a one-size-fits-all solution. If I have the code open in my editor, I’ll add a debugger statement. If in DevTools, I’ll set a breakpoint (if it lets me). I do whatever’s most convenient in the moment.

Are you going to patch vue-coffee?

Jacques · May 15, 2018, 8:46am

Got it! Thanks!

Sorry but I am still waaaaayyyyy too closer to zero than to hero to try to fix any part of the quite overwhelming (to me) tech stack that I am currently still merely evaluating the viability/practicalilty:

Meteor + Astronomy + Vue-Meteor + Vue + Vue-Router + Vuex + Vue-SSR + Quasar + CoffeeScript + Pug + Stylus,
recent ES6 and CSS stuff to understand the docs and examples,
VSCode + Chrome Dev Tools to understand how to debug this whole enchilada,
Visual Studio Team Service + Git + Github to control versions and collaborate,
and I haven’t yet looked at the all important testing stuff (Mocha, Chai, Sinon, Chimp and God knows what else I will need to learn when I dive into it)
nor at cloud deployment (Galaxy? Node Chef?)
nor at mobile (Cordova) and desktop deployment (Electron)

coagmano · May 16, 2018, 1:35am

There’s a hell of a lot of transpilation going on there!

hexsprite · May 18, 2018, 2:19am

Meteor is a very inclusive community

mullojo · April 16, 2020, 3:30pm

So now that Meteor is in some new leadership hands, we can probably start to spread the love again! I’ve been using @akryum’s packages for Meteor + Vue and it is an amazing combination. Please sponsor @akryum on Github if you use these packages and love them as much as I do. Let’s bring the Meteor & Vue communities together.

korg0001 · April 16, 2020, 10:42pm

I created skeleton files awhile back but don’t have time to contribute right now. Here’s a link if anyone wants to open an issue and add them to the latest Meteor version for a PR.

johncochran92 · April 17, 2020, 1:33am

hwillson:

I think we all need to take a step back and look at this from a business perspective. MDG has their priorities set (and funding allocated) in areas other than view layer integration. They’re working with a finite number of team members, time and money to build awesome open source developer tools,

But they are failing if many developers feel Vue delivers a more awesome developer experience than Handlebars templates and React. That Vue was the most starred repo in 2017 and Laravael’s popularity certainly seems to support this argument. I’ve talked to a lot of React and Angular devs who moved to Vue and say they would never go back. So far never heard of a dev who preferred switching from Vue to React. (Of course, this is just anecdotal, and subject to confirmation bias, but it might not be wrong)

it’s hard to know what MDG’s priorities are. Andreessen Horowitz may have invested simply because improving the quality of frameworks available to startups improves the whole startup industy–which increases the value of A16Z holdings across the board.

What if focusing more on Vue integration took time away from bootstrapping Apollo, which prevented it from being a success, and leading to more income paths like Optics / Engine?

We’ll never know how many others (like my team) are rebuilding our Meteor apps in Vue + Graphcool or some other non-Meteor stack.

Factually, we know MDG’s income comes from consulting (you can buy developer support), selling dubious “partner ” listing, and Galaxy hosting. None of us really know how well any of that is working out, but we do know that haven’t invested much in the way of new features for Galaxy years after launching i.e. if they only added two API endpoints–one to monitor resources; and, another to create new containers–then we’d have all we need to implement auto-scaling.

With their focus on React and GraphQL maybe they are just hoping their team and tech will be acquired by Facebook. Andreessen, the major backer of Meteor, is on the board at Facebook. This has been speculated about for years
http://joshowens.me/facebook-to-acquire-meteor/

We can speculate all we like, but their business strategy is essentially a black box.

Thank you

maxhodges · April 17, 2020, 4:10am

Hi @johncochran92 and @mullojo , Since I wrote made those posts, I’ve come to understand Vue has it’s own way to doing reactivity which isn’t really compatible with Meteor. It’s like saying, “why can’t I drop a Tesla electric car engine into my Ford Mustang?” If Vue was a drop-in replacement for Handlebars, then we wouldn’t be having this conversation. Some have tried to get them working together, but it’s an ugly kludge of workarounds. I believe some of the issues are touched on here:

github.com/vuejs/vue

Necessary changes to observer for full Tracker compatibility

vuejs:dev ← meteor-vue:tracker-compatibility

opened 12:11AM - 05 Jan 17 UTC

mitar

+167 -60

(This is all open for debate and I understand that it is previously undiscussed …pull request, but it is easier to debate it with concrete code changes available.) I am working on integration of Vue with [Meteor](https://github.com/meteor/meteor) and I would like that Vue could be a drop-in replacement for Blaze. That is almost possible, because architecture is very similar. Vue is also using reactive dependency tracking, observer, while Meteor/Blaze is using [Tracker](https://github.com/meteor/meteor/tree/devel/packages/tracker). Now, there is a lot of code written for Meteor which is using Tracker and it would be great if it could just work with Vue. And in fact it is doable. I managed to create a [full 100% compatible Tracker implementation on top of Vue's observer](https://github.com/mitar/vue-test/blob/master/packages/tracker/tracker.js). But there are some changes necessary to observer's implementation and some internals have to be exposed. This pull request is initial version of changes I had to do to get this first version of Tracker implemented, to get discussion rolling. I would really like to see if this or something like this could get merged into Vue. From my perspective changes do not really change how observer is working, and all existing tests are still passing. A list of changes: * added support for after flush callbacks * adding a way to force flushing * fixed exception recovery for pushTarget/popTarget * correctly cleanup queue if there is an exception from getter * exposing some internals (probably too much, API could be cleaner there) Requesting comments, feedback, suggestions. This is work in progress. I will add tests in the future, after we finalize that this is OK to do and everything else. [Example app](https://github.com/mitar/vue-test). Notice how I can use [Meteor ReactiveVar inside computed value directly](https://github.com/mitar/vue-test/blob/master/client/app.vue#L34).

We were early adopters of Meteor (we were running our business on Meteor v0.6) back when you could host for free. But starting a couple years ago, we switched away from Meteor, in part because we wanted to work with Vue and GraphQL.

There are lots of choices when it comes to your stack these days. Meteor was great choice for us at that moment in time. It was cool, experimental, and ground-breaking. But the landscape has changed: we have Vue, GraphQL, and Gridsome. We have JAMstack architectures, sites pre-rendered during build and hosted on Netlify, we have tools like Prisma, and backends like Hasura and Faunadb.

Meteor is was it is. Sometimes you just can’t get your old girlfriend to change; and you have to move on and find someone else.

alawi · April 17, 2020, 4:46am

You can use Vue and Meteor as a backend, that tighter integration is for reactivity I believe. You can also use GraphQL with Meteor build system, many projects does. And finally you can run a JAMStack with Meteor API. Prisma looks interesting though.

alawi · April 17, 2020, 7:53am

@maxhodges I’m curious, are you building a consumer or enterprise applications? and how many developers in your team?

I did a quick breakdown of the tech you mentioned for reference, thanks.

Client:

Vue: clients rendering engine
Gridsome: static site generates, (GatsbyJS for Vue), useful for blogs CMS
JAMstack: Architecture style where you’ve SPA clients hosted on a CDN connecting to a backend
Netlify: static hosting platform

Data Protocol:

GraphQL: Data query language protocol, independent of the tech stack

Backends:

Prisma: SQL ORM, generate API and CRUD from SQL databases (ORM)
Hasura: Create GraphQL API from Postgres DB (GraphQL ORM from Postgres database)
FaunaDB: Database as a backend (kind similar to Firebase with GraphQL API)

mullojo · April 18, 2020, 10:16pm

I everyone! I just wanted to express my personal joy in using Vue with Meteor since Dec. 2018. At that time, I decided to start building a new app with Meteor + Vue and I’ll be honest that I had some concerns due to FUD & scepticism out there, but I’m happy to report is was just FUD . At that time my experience with Meteor was building 1 Meteor (Blaze) app and I had enjoyed that combination (3 yrs ago). Vue alone is now hugely popular as a front-end framework in combination with many types of backends, but Vue devs have to eventually find a great backend to complete a full-stack. I also had no interest in any other database than MongoDB (I’ve used over 10 top databases as a Data Scientist & Dev). Obviously you need Node.js in a JS stack, but I could have built my own stack with websockets and lots of other re-coding of what already exists, or I could just use Meteor which comes with Node.js & MongoDB, and a secure accounts package.

So now about 1.5 years later, I’m very pleased with my choice. There were two very important packages authored by @akryum that made a full integration between Vue + Meteor a breeze 1) vue-component (on atmosphere to use Vue files natively) and 2) meteor-vue-tracker (on npm to have 100% reactivity with Meteor, for pub/sub heaven). I give $10 a month to @akryum via his Github sponsorship which gets you an invite to his private Discord Server. So big Thanks to @akryum These packages are featured in the Meteor + Vue guide and a new Meteor + Vue tutorial that is now up thanks to @brianmulhall. There are not many Vue + Meteor “evangelists” out there YET, so I guess I’m feeling that I should be one. To Vue users who have never tried Meteor as a backend, I say it is like Vue for the backend. For past Meteor users, I feel it completes the dream goals of what Meteor was wanting to achieve for simplicity, speed, & reactivity in new full-stack multi-user app development.

Also, I want to say thank you to @filipenevola because he has been easy to collaborate with in the Meteor Community and he has been super supportive of publicly supporting Vue + Meteor.

I’m willing to help people get started with & try this stack if you want to say hi on the new Meteor Slack Community. I’m on a new Meteor Community Discord too if you prefer that.

Here are a couple reminders:

Meteor is better than is has ever been with the 1.10 release (latest Node.js & MongoDB & Cordova)
MongoDB has improved a lot in the last 3 years, very powerful queries are possible today (& free starter Atlas hosting)
Vue brings joy developing the front-end, it’s simplicity + power speaks for itself
Galaxy is also a joy, and you get 1 month free now to try it out, and can host an app for $7 a month, this is a big improvement over the previous pricing for smaller apps (Galaxy has a big list of upgrades coming)
For new apps, we are going to add new Vue skeletons (like React has) to make it even easier to get started. Thanks @korg0001 for the pointer if you started this already.

We all are building different apps where today there is no one size fits all, but I’m hoping that more people realize the great combo with Vue + Meteor!

Just as a side note, since this came up in a couple responses, I think not everyone knows that Meteor has a new private corporate sponsor as of around fall 2019, Tiny Capital. Here is a post that kind of explains why Meteor’s MDG had to pivot to Apollo to create a different solutions for its investors, not beause Meteor itself was not a great idea. Twitter post by Tiny Capital’s Managing Partner Andrew Wilkinson. @johncochran92 there is no longer the MDG as a corporate entity, their $53 mil in VC funding was a pressure that got relieved with Tiny’s aquisition. So now there is support for integrations with all the best modern front-ends. I’m just trying to clear up OLD FUD. Happy developing everyone!

Lastly a big thanks to @evanyou for creating Vue in the 1st place, working at the old Meteor (MDG) in the past to probably learn more of what not to do, and then creating something that is perhaps the best example of what open-source communities are capable of, much love man!

switheyw · April 29, 2020, 11:56pm

Many thanks for the update on Tiny Capital. I had no idea although I am a Meteor devloper and read the meteor forum evey once in awhile.