So what kind of title would you prefer?
“What is needed in Meteor to make it easier for non-programmers to build applications easily?” for example.
The title of this thread isn’t a specific question that can actually be answered, which naturally leads to a defocused thread. It would be better to have something more specific and constructive, that can lead to people coming up with concrete ideas for actionable improvements.
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That was not my intention. I’m saying that, like mentioned in this thread, there is people that use Meteor to build pet projects while others build business on top of that.
Based on this:
As a CEO it was helping me a lot, controlling my development team, because i could understand and even do things myself. And more important. I could make my ideas come true.
What i was trying to say is: if you still want to make your ideas come true, or build pet projects, just use the earlier versions of Meteor.
Thank you. Now i understand, what you mean.
I wasn’t searching for an answer to a technical question. I was searching for something behind that.
I was searching for the reasons and motivations, that meteor is driving now compared to what it was driven by earlier.
And your feedback or let’s say comment gives me a much clearer picture now.
In my eyes you are not answering my maybe “provocative” question by suggesting another one, which i not meant and not asked.
I asked exactly for the vision, that stands now behind meteor.
But more than that i try to find out, what people are behind it and what you are driven by beyond the bare business.
And i do that, because i wanna find out, if i still should bet on meteor, like i did now for a long time. Or if i should take other ways to solve my and my customers problems.
I think the main problem isn’t necessarily discontent (with the product as of right now) - more so it’s fear. Fear of what the future holds, and (lack of) communication with what improvements users will actually have at the end of this.
As a developer who is using our meteor app live in production (which manages our business day by day), I can’t say that I too am not worried. It’s going to be horrible if the current app is completely screwed without a huge refactor - and what will be the gain in the end? Will it be worth it?
It gives the impression that Meteor isn’t stable. Because as well as it might work currently, next major update might completely break everything and need not just a minor refactor, but a huge one. And then the next update after that might be the same thing.
Of course, it might make things appealing to new users. But I question that logic honestly. It gets to a point where people will be asking “So why would I choose Meteor over just React?” and that’s a harder question to answer. You can even see in this topic people saying to switch over to React.
And if the convenience of Meteor is lost in this transition, you can bet most the current users will not be using it for future projects either.
So I do think there should be -something- to ease our minds. Being a Meteor developer with a live application is a very scary situation to be in. Some have said we will not be abandoned, but there are so many things that make this seem like we actually will. Will they just say in the end “Well, you can stay with the old version”? But what happens then once major security vulnerabilities?
This is why they brought up Meteor Classic idea a few months back. Which I think would be very fair.
It would just be a shame if those of us who are Meteor’s biggest supporters, were left behind in favor of wishes of more new users - because those new users may never come, and the very best thing for Meteor would be to see more and more Meteor apps used in production. You won’t get new users without A) seeing Meteor pop up more places on the web, B) word of mouth from the current users, and C) a community that seems some-what content (or at least, not DISCONTENT).
Right now, A is kind of happening (I see more Meteor sites in the past), but word of mouth is SEVERELY lacking, most of it is negative - especially when you compare it to a year ago, and the community is very scared, without very much to alleviate this.
With that said, I do love using Meteor (still on version 1.3). I just hope the software I love using is still around and in development in a year from now… and isn’t turned in to something that isn’t nearly as enjoyable to use.
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I am not really sure if i understand your question correctly…
our client still use the browser to use our application and serve thru a web-server
There should be a “Whingebag” badge. One that is given by the community to those who start this kind of threads
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Sorry for being blunt, but whichever way it is put, and whatever the motivation, it is still a ridiculous title. This is getting emotional about a piece of technology.
Yes! You got it!
Because that is, what drives people. Emotion!.
Thats, what makes the difference. This is what let’s people do the extra mile. It is, what assures, wether a project will be great and stable or not. If the persons behind a project don’t back it by emotions, the project is dead.
So to find out, if a project has a chance to survive storm and bad times, you have to know, who is standing behind it and what motivations drives them. At least as long as such a project is not stable and consistent. Which meteor unfortunately isn’t in my eyes.
Otherwise the chance of not going on also in hard times, is low. And that let’s people doubt, if it’s lacking.
And to assure myself, if i should build on the base of such a technology, i have to know exactly that. Do the original guys stand behind it or not! Are they working on it. Have they goals with it, where does it go and why. Whats the vision behind it.
So yes. That’s exactly, what i mean. Getting emotional about a piece of technology.
Steve Jobs and other successful people did exactly that and succeeded through all the hard times they had.
That’s why they have so many developers making so many apps and so run their turnaround to billions.
They know, how important emotions are. And so do i.
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We really ought to fight like mad to get this into the 2017 Roadmap
Item #9 - A huge display of emotion
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Funny! That was a good one!
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You don’t have any emotions for your own created software or the package they are built on? Mh, maybe you can identify yourself with “him”:
Sorry 
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Sure, only that Steve Jobs was the leader and evangelist of Apple. He used emotion to enable. In the case of this post, it starts with a very negative tone. The positive emotion you are talking about is nowhere to be seen in here. The parallel is too far fetched.
It just looks like yet another “o-h my ghaaad, the sky is falling” kind of post.
From my own experience, I can tell you this: Meteor, in the so-called state the prophets of doom like to think it is, has helped us write a 250k LOC SaaS. Soon to be released. It has helped others, such as @ramez build amazing products. Users such as @diaconutheodor have brought in some of the most significant contributions to Meteor in recent years (far more important than established poor practices like MUP/MUPX, which every little guy seems to be crying about these days!), yet every day I wake up to a forum where there is yet another doom and gloom posting.
Someone leaves, someone comes. Things change. If you’re good at what you’re doing, you shouldn’t care much.
Apologies if the wording comes across as too strong, it’s nothing personal.
P.S. Nevertheless, good pep talk
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Yes I do, hence fighting back all these pointlessly negative forum posts
I find it interesting, to read, what you write.
And it’s good, that you are happy about, what meteor did in the past. So do i.
You got right. Things change. Someone leaves, someone comes.
So know what you see now, is me, coming and asking these questions.
I do care. Even if i shouldn’t in your eyes.
So i ask myself, what are you fighting against?
I am one of the community who likes to know, what i asked for.
It’s not negative. It’s legitim. At least in my eyes.
I am mostly happy about what we managed to build. With Meteor, I am happy from a crafting perspective - I just love what it lets us do. There is simply nothing that was possible in the past, and that has become impossible now. This is something I don’t get at all.
Top notch reactive framework (see Redis Oplog if you think it’s not scalable), that lets you write isomorphic code, and gives you three solid UI choices. That is a very big thing. Let me emphasize - very big!
Really, what is everybody’s issue now? Why so much wailing left and right on these forums. Very useful posts and announcements get drowned in a teary, salty sea of gloom: “What happens to X now that Y has left”, “Z has moved on from Meteor and has written a Medium post”, “The vision is gone”. Boom! The sky has fallen and it’s all over the floor.
Everyone with a bit of technical skill knows that, even if MDG disappears tomorrow, nothing is lost. You can run your product with Meteor 1.4.3 FOR EVER.
If you want your voice to be heard, you have several options: 1) start using Galaxy, and as an enterprise customer you’ll have direct line to MDG; 2) create a useful package, something that brings in many users to Meteor, and maintain it; 3) overall, bring in constructive ideas
Speaking of legitimate, just out of curiosity, can you point to a contribution that you (or your company) has made to the Meteor community (a package, issues, bug reports, advice to a novice, … anything)? I noticed on these forums that it is mostly non-contributors that complain very often. And it is usually about very ethereal matters.
See, that’s my point.
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Thank you for your point.
I find, that it’s grounded and legitim too.
But you see it from a standpoint of a developer, that is in the development industry.
I do it from a standpoint, from the companies, that are needning development. And try to achieve things in a budget with internal developers.
And from my standpoint of view, things like low costs and simplicity and stability and more are very key. And as meteor is going away from that, other questions coming in my mind, than in yours.
So for me, t is really important to know, where it s going.
But even if i am not a classical developer, i am a part of the meteor community because i’m using it. And so i ask the questions, that i ask to get the answers, that i need.
i ask them, because i have them. And it’s really not up to you to judge people, what’s a good question and what’s not. Because you don’t know their needs or backgrounds.
That thread could be much shorter, if someone would take the time to answer my questions instead of moaning, that i shouldn’t have asked this or that. Or to say, that others shouldn’t have asked this or that.
It is my and their right, to ask, what we think we need to know. even when it’s not bringing pleasure in the first place.
So it takes some courage to ask this questions. Because as soon, as there is a little criticism in the air, people like you come and around with their negative words against the, in my eyes legitim questions, instead of ANSWERING them.
My post above is definitely strongly worded, and I hope it doesn’t upset you very much. But, you see, this is mostly a technical forum. From the description:
I’m afraid this is just not the place for business, vision, and strategy related questions. Send a ticket to MDG for that.
It would have been a lot better if, as @sashko pointed out earlier, you framed your question in a technical manner.
I noticed you keep telling people that it is not for them to judge your question. Well, most of us are techies, and also understand Meteor quite well. We DO have the right to judge your non-technical question, and sorry to say, it is absolute rubbish.
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Guys. Let’s not feed the trolls, ok? They just come back for more … and more.
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No. This is getting emotional, because some startups betted a lot on the future of the uber-cool and super simple Meteor we all loved and now see their efforts flow away in the drains. Sort of.
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