Will kadira be shutting down?

SkinnyGeek1010 · December 9, 2016, 6:32pm

Good point. Hopefully that will be do-able with costs. Typically the paid tier subsidizes the free tier so without the free one, any accounts are just profit.

a.com · December 9, 2016, 6:37pm

even $20/month is a little up there for the lowest tier. I sometimes have one app for local, dev and production versions of the app… I could see shelling out $5 each but I’d look elsewhere if it was $60/month (as a pre-revenue app)

SkinnyGeek1010 · December 9, 2016, 6:49pm

I think the larger issue is that the application can’t make enough money to be sustainable. A brick and morter business will spend tens of thousands of dollars (or more) to get running. Paying $5 for detailed information on your system is undervalued and likely not profitable on Kadira’s part. You also don’t really need one account for dev/staging… prod is the main one.

Just my opinion!

ffxsam · December 9, 2016, 8:06pm

IMO the no-brainer bottom tier price would be $15/mo. Affordable for everyone, and literally the same feature set as the free tier right now. As someone who uses Kadira’s free tier currently (I could never justify $50/mo for it to be honest), I would have no complaints if they had to ditch the free plan and make it a $15/mo paid plan instead. Many free users would stop using it, of course, but I’m guessing that group would consist mostly of hobbyists.

thsowers · December 12, 2016, 4:33pm

Any word on this? I love Kadira and I don’t like the feeling of being in limbo

chulian · December 15, 2016, 11:05pm

so kadira is the only option?

sbr464 · December 15, 2016, 11:21pm

We use sentry.io, I feel it’s better.
You can also send interaction type logs, custom events, benchmark/performance data as you need, not just error data. Obviously there are some automatic performance data that kadira provides for you, but some of those items can be re-implemented in Sentry if needed.

ffxsam · December 16, 2016, 12:57am

Isn’t comparing sentro.io to Kadira kind of apples vs oranges? Kadira has a sense of Meteor-specific constructs such as publications and methods, and their performance. I don’t think any other service offers that.

chulian · December 16, 2016, 1:17am

ok so what other meteor specific monitoring tools are they?

ffxsam · December 16, 2016, 1:37am

That’s just it, I don’t think there are any other than Kadira.

cstrat · December 16, 2016, 1:42am

Guess I am lucky, I am on the old ‘start up plan’ for $10 a month.

I wouldn’t pay $50 a month either, but I am more than happy to spend $10.
If this weren’t an option I wouldn’t be a paying customer.

sashko · December 16, 2016, 1:45am

Does Kadira have some sort of support forum?

sbr464 · December 16, 2016, 2:02am

I’ve reviewed the kadira source code from github, the raven client from
sentry reports data in a very similar way to how the kadira internal agent
reports tracking/performance and error data to it’s cloud/home server.
I’m currently working on moving some of the Kadira logic that tracks what
you are mentioning to a similar reporting function in Sentry. Especially
around some of the publication/method latency etc. I’ll let you know if we
get a basic pattern going. Sentry can at least store a bulk of that data,
and if it doesn’t have a good interface to visually navigate it, Sentry
does have a full api that could allow you to connect to charts/similar
kadira interface.

For example

github.com

meteorhacks/kadira/blob/384463446f613a4dd32275c732f8be3db761f4b4/lib/kadira.js

var hostname = Npm.require('os').hostname();
var logger = Npm.require('debug')('kadira:apm');
var Fibers = Npm.require('fibers');

var KadiraCore = Npm.require('kadira-core').Kadira;

Kadira.models = {};
Kadira.options = {};
Kadira.env = {
  currentSub: null, // keep current subscription inside ddp
  kadiraInfo: new Meteor.EnvironmentVariable(),
};
Kadira.waitTimeBuilder = new WaitTimeBuilder();
Kadira.errors = [];
Kadira.errors.addFilter = Kadira.errors.push.bind(Kadira.errors);

Kadira.models.methods = new MethodsModel();
Kadira.models.pubsub = new PubsubModel();
Kadira.models.system = new SystemModel();
Kadira.docSzCache = new DocSzCache(100000, 10);

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Base endpoint/connection definition, to refactor and insert Sentry/Raven
client.

github.com

meteorhacks/kadira/blob/master/lib/models/system.js

var os = Npm.require('os');
var usage = Npm.require('pidusage');
var EventLoopMonitor = Npm.require('evloop-monitor');

SystemModel = function () {
  var self = this;
  this.startTime = Ntp._now();
  this.newSessions = 0;
  this.sessionTimeout = 1000 * 60 * 30; //30 min

  this.usageLookup = Kadira._wrapAsync(usage.stat.bind(usage));
  this.evloopMonitor = new EventLoopMonitor(200);
  this.evloopMonitor.start();
}

_.extend(SystemModel.prototype, KadiraModel.prototype);

SystemModel.prototype.buildPayload = function() {
  var metrics = {};
  var now = Ntp._now();

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Event loop that get’s memory/cpu usage with time stamps and reports back to
kadira

Kadira/send prototypes

github.com

meteorhacks/kadira/blob/master/lib/common/send.js

Kadira.send = function (payload, path, callback) {
  if(!Kadira.connected)  {
    throw new Error("You need to connect with Kadira first, before sending messages!");
  }

  path = (path.substr(0, 1) != '/')? "/" + path : path;
  var endpoint = Kadira.options.endpoint + path;
  var retryCount = 0;
  var retry = new Retry({
    minCount: 1,
    minTimeout: 0,
    baseTimeout: 1000*5,
    maxTimeout: 1000*60,
  });

  var sendFunction = Kadira._getSendFunction();
  tryToSend();

  function tryToSend(err) {
    if(retryCount < 5) {

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Technically if you run Kadira in your app, and just change the Kadira
models to point to a Raven client(sentry), Sentry would receive the bulk of
data, the same as Kadira. Obviously it wouldn’t parse much of it, and it is
a lot of work no doubt, but you would still get the raw data and could
configure a few interfaces or hook to a charting software

The client isn’t overly complex and it’s written well. It is what is doing
a bulk of the work regarding tracking the Meteor specific pub/sub/methods
etc.

vikr00001 · December 16, 2016, 3:52am

It’s noteworthy that @arunoda is living us in limbo this long about not only Kadira, but also Mantra.

sbr464 · December 16, 2016, 4:37am

I would like to share that even though it’s inconvenient, my feeling is that @arunoda doesn’t owe anyone anything, and I still very much appreciate his contributions. That said, when offering a commercial service it is important to handle the communication properly for those that rely on the service (paying clients etc). But it’s a tough call, this is a hybrid open source type offering, and it seems that the people who contribute the most, also get the most negative feedback. Such is life, I appreciate you MDG (@sashko) and @arunoda.

korus90 · December 16, 2016, 10:17am

Although I don’t use Kadira myself, the fact @arunoda has left everyone in the dark about what’s going on really stinks in my opinion. Of course he’s provided a lot to the Meteor community, but Kadira is a paid service and he should treat it as such.

arunoda · December 16, 2016, 11:36am

Guys,

We haven’t decided anything yet.

Of course, there’ll be a huge change coming. But that doesn’t mean we are killing the opportunity to monitor Meteor apps.

So, if you are using Kadira to monitor Meteor apps, you’ll be able to use Kadira (or something similar) as long as you want.

If you guys needs some specific information, just drop me a message at arunoda@kadira.io

Currently, I’m not monitoring this forum regularly. If you need something from me, just drop me an email.

korus90 · December 16, 2016, 12:42pm

Thanks for giving everyone an update. I think a lot of people here needed a response from you!

vikr00001 · December 20, 2016, 10:24pm

@arunoda, I emailed you a few days ago, and would greatly appreciate a reply. Thanks in advance!

thea · December 20, 2016, 10:39pm

Please use the appropriate channels @arunoda has mentioned for news about Kadira. If you’d like to discuss alternatives for Meteor monitoring, please open a new thread on that topic that isn’t focused on speculation.